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Friendship is Fickle by HareTrinity Friendship is Fickle by HareTrinity
Did most of this a week ago as practice. Picture will be moved to Scraps. It was wonky from the lines and I'd really have to start again to fix it all. There's a comic to go with it that sadly didn't come out much better: [link]

Starting to feel like I'm the only DAer who didn't like One Bad Apple. To be honest I enjoyed most of it, despite how clichéd it was, but not the ending. Not the ending at ALL.

Babs spent her whole visit hanging out with Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon, at the very least pretending to be their friend. The episode ended with her scaring them into mud even though, as far as we know, they'd been good friends to Babs: They shared their little rump-bump with her, they hung out with her for the visit, and unless they'd taken up train spotting it seems that they came to the station to say goodbye to her.

I'm not saying DT & SS aren't stuck-up little so-and-sos, and I know know lots of people wanted to see them dunked in mud, but they didn't deserve it from someone they thought was their friend.

I was bullied by my friends in school and it was horrible. NO ONE deserves that. And YES, I know it's possible that DT & SS didn't really like Babs, but WE DON'T KNOW THAT, and even if they didn't there's still no excuse for Babs turning on them so suddenly, ESPECIALLY given the episode's messages. I think it's in most ways worse than what Babs did to the CMC at the start because at that point (a) she hadn't really spent time with the CMC and (b) she apparently didn't know any better.

Ironically enough, one thing I DID learn from being bullied is that a bully's friends often have greater influence over them than adults, and if one of the bully's friends vouches for you then the bully themselves will probably back off. This was the perfect time for Babs to be honest with DT & SS instead of turning straight to intimidation tactics. That or for the CMC to question DT & SS on their motives (which could have had a stuck-up response and ended up with DT & SS accidentally storming off the platform all by themselves).

Instead, moments after we'd been told that bullies are people too, we had two little kids being portrayed as acceptable targets with no signs of it being deliberate irony.

You do not have to dislike the episode. I'm not trying to ruin it for you. I just personally have problems with how the ending was handled and hope other people can understand my points.

And I guess if you're a Babs fan then here's a pic with her drinking milkshake. Yay.
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:iconconorxpetunia:
ConorXPetunia Featured By Owner Edited Apr 17, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
*Insert Gif of Silver Spoon Clapping Here*

Babs behavior towards the Cutie Mark Crusaders was far worse than anything DT and Silver Spoon had ever done (prior to this episode, that is - Flight to the Finish, anyone? :P) and yet Babs was the one who was redeemed because Babs was the cousin of the main protagonist of the episode (Apple Bloom). Babs' actions were utterly reprehensible: first, she sold out her cousin to be cool, then she sold out her friends to get back on her cousin's good side. :x
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
She got physical with the CMC (pushing them aside to steal their drinks) during the song, too, plus the whole taking their stuff vibe in general... Yeah. :( Kind of weird that she was the only one of the 6 foals in the ep who DIDN'T get covered in mud!

Odd writing. :shrug:
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:iconconorxpetunia:
ConorXPetunia Featured By Owner Edited Apr 17, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It would've been an easy fix, too. Have it that Babs goes too far and Silver and Diamond are forced to turn to the CMC's to stop Babs. After they do, Apple Jack and Apple Bloom give Babs a lecture on how being bullied doesn't give you an excuse to *be* a bully. At this point, Diamond and Silver go back to their old antics - *then* Babs can push them in the mud all she likes, because Diamond and Silver are clearly in the wrong in this scenario.

Eh, One Bad Apple is yet another reason Season 3 is considered the worst season of FiM. :P
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:iconalexwarlorn:
alexwarlorn Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2014
The story did end on a double standard. 
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Just a tad. :hmm:
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:icondylgo:
Dylgo Featured By Owner Edited Sep 7, 2014
well, think about it from bab's point of view. you do bring up good points. But think about it, Babs had been bullied just as badly as the CMC has. she had the chance to avoid it and she took it at the cost of those who really wanted to be her friend. when the CMC saved her from their own trap, she saw how wrong she was in doing so. and considering how often DT and SS have taken advantage of others in the past, it's not really that far a stretch to think they'd do that. and from Bab's point of view, DT and SS wouldn't have made the effort. scaring them is questionable, but thinking about it from her point of view, I really can't blame her.

and, for the record, I was bullied for 13 years myself by just about everyone but my family. I've felt every kind of pain bullying can produce. I've even considered suicide in the past. (but those thoughts are WAY behind me now) but the thing is, scaring them the way she did pales in comparison to what DT and SS did to many others. what they said to Scootaloo in the episode where they were auditioning for that part of the Equestria games being case in point. what they said put Scootaloo through some very serious mental pain that almost ended everything her and her friends had worked so hard to achieve, including their friendship.

Now, no. I'm not saying stooping to their level is a good thing. But, like my dad would always tell me, there's an exception to every rule. after everything DT and SS had put the CMC through and everything they had convinced Babs to do to them under what is, in her view, were false pretenses I honestly can't blame Babs.

Just my opinion though.
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Sep 7, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
From what we saw, the bullying Babs put the CMC through far exceeded anything DT & SS had done before, as she stalked them and even got physical. She was bullying Apple Bloom in her own home. If anything, in context it seems more like DT & SS escalated after Babs showed them how.

I was bullied and had suicidal thoughts too, I even started having breakdowns in my early teens, but among the most emotionally painful bullying I had was when my best friend at the time decided she'd rather be popular and joined in with them. Babs turning on the CMC shortly after meeting them didn't take me back to that, but Babs turning on DT & SS so coldly after spending most of her visit with them? That did. Probably didn't help that Apple Bloom has 3+ close friends (I'm including Twist), whereas DT seems to have just the 1, so DT looks a lot lonelier to me even if she doesn't show it.

Also, in terms of writing it seems sloppy to have a "bullies are not acceptable targets" ep than ends on the punchline of bullies being acceptable targets, not to mention showing a character's reformed by having her again show her allegiance by acting aggressively towards the other group.

These days I often find myself wondering if we too often teach kids that they need to "defeat" their bullies. Maybe some people won't stop any other way, but I learnt first hand in school that sometimes being nice to bullies meant they'd be nicer to me, sometimes even getting their friends to lay off a little. For all the theories I've heard on bullies, I wonder how many are just bored or getting carried away, or could be reigned in by non-bully friends. Maybe encouraging more of a team mentality would help matters better than telling victims not to fight back (ugh, ego-killer) and having teachers tell bullies not to bully (I've never seen that work).
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:iconyonderness:
Yonderness Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Wow, I completely understand your view on that episode. I actually had the same thoughts about it but you worded them perfectly. 

Diamond Tiara always bugged me, because we never get to see her being nice! Bullies are rarely so mean that they have no friends, and she has a great friend! (Silver Spoon.) They probably do lots together and are completely nice! I also always disliked the "mean rich kid" stereotype. MLP (the show) was doing a great job of not stereotyping, until Diamond Tiara. 
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Aye, it would be nice if they fleshed her out a bit more. At least Twilight Time did it a little?

And yay for shared dislikes! :) It's nice to know other people understand what I mean!
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:iconyonderness:
Yonderness Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I actually didn't start watching MLP untill the end of this past summer, and so I have been using Netflix and am only at the end of Season three. So I haven't seen that one yet :D
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Ah, okay. :)
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:iconlost-our-dreams:
Lost-Our-Dreams Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2014  Student Digital Artist
now that I think about it, you're totally right o-o That was really mean of Babs to just suddenly turn on them. Even though they were bullies, they were still her friends. Rather than just turning on them because they were mean to her other friends, the episode's meaning could have been so much better if she tried to get them to all be friends. Rather than teaching a lesson not to bully others, it would also teach a way more useful lesson of how to deal with split friends. A lot of people get torn between having cool friends, and being friends with the 'nerdy' people. The episode could have been way better if Babs, someone who understood both of the groups of friends, tried to get them to understand each other, so that they could all be friends. That would have been way better
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Exactly what I was try to say! I hadn't thought about it for "cool"/"uncool" friend groups angle, but you're right that it would have shown that too.
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:iconwatcher25:
watcher25 Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2013
super point, after you brought it up, I think it would have made a great possible avenue to redemption, even a better episode like you suggested,

I'd personally like to have as few reasons to dislike those ponies as much as possible

though maybe is sadly stands to say that some just won't learn...?
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thank you! And aye, I prefer it when shows try to give ALL the characters depth, it just makes it more fun to watch.

I'll hold out hope that, if FIM continues for long enough, they'll end up giving all the secondary characters more depth. :) It wouldn't be the first series to eventually give in and make the "generic bully" characters more likeable!
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:iconsemerl:
semerl Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2013
>I'm not saying DT & SS aren't stuck-up so-and-sos

Would you say that Babs is a stuck up so-and-so as well?
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Hm, not sure... Maybe just defensive and/or with a sadistic streak? She didn't seem to consider herself better than others, just really lashed out (and seemed to enjoy it) when she felt weak. This said, I guess it's possible that she thinks she deserves to have a cutie mark and that those without are below her (despite the hypocrisy).
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:iconquirkyhedgehog2333:
quirkyhedgehog2333 Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2013
I don;t really think babs bullied them,she was gonna say something rude,but then she threatend to tell there parents, dt and ss fell into the mud because they weren't watching what they were doing,but hey thats just me
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
If you watch the clip you can see her lean forward suddenly to get them to fall off the edge of the platform.
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:iconquirkyhedgehog2333:
quirkyhedgehog2333 Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2013
oooooohhhhh,okay
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:icontruecere:
truecere Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
PLUS why would she bully them? wasn't the whole ep to show bullying is wrong
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah. :/ It's worrying how many people I've heard argue it was okay for Babs to bully DT & SS because she was defending the CMC and/or because DT & SS aren't nice, despite the fact that bullying is always wrong! Seems the writers didn't get that memo though, so I guess it's not surprising more people didn't learn it.

Oh well.
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:icontruecere:
truecere Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
the human race.as a not-so-smart duck once said;disphicible
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I think humans are getting better, just in very small steps and with occasional backtracking!
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:icontruecere:
truecere Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
amen to that!
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:iconlisawolf:
LisaWolf Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
As much as I do like the episode, your right in that the ending itself was messed up. Not only with Babs saying what she said, but Applejack was also there, she could of been the one to say something.... and not have them fall in mud.
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Adult ponies are very lacking in the CMC eps... I like to headcanon that with DT & SS they have a frenemy thing with the CMC (i.e. are sometimes good to each other) so adults don't step in because they think it's just friendly teasing, but that they seemed to miss EVERYTHING with Babs being persistently mean? That's kind of sad. :(
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:iconlisawolf:
LisaWolf Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer

Yea, I noticed that.

And Diamond was friendlyish, to them in the Ponyville Confidential episode, I honestly think that would of been a great point along with this episode for some sort of character Growth for her..... hmmm. Silver wasn't in this one either.

Then a writer friend of mine came up with this, if I remember right was set during the Ponyville Confidential episode. Makes a lot of sense, and gives some serious indept thought into Diamond's personality in my option.

www.fimfiction.net/story/92001...

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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Nice to know I'm not the only one who headcanons her with no mother! Maybe it was the overworked look that Filthy Rich had.
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:iconlisawolf:
LisaWolf Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer

Yea, I think most people that give her any consideration normally has her being raised by just her dad.

 

My head-canon for her, has her mother walking out on them when she was very little. Young enough not to really remember to much about her mom and her dad doing his very best to raise her, but also being swamped with work most of the time so he rarely has much free time to spend with her. Which is why she looks up to him so much when he can spend time with her.

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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Pretty much the same here (as my comics show). :) I'm still proud of myself for giving her a mining family background and the name "Gold Digger" :p
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:iconlisawolf:
LisaWolf Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer

Hehe, ya that is pretty good. "Gold Digger" sounds perfect.

 

Diamond Tiara in my story I haven't expanded to, she became friends with Noi after seeing Silver Spoon get more and more bullish.

 

Silver Spoon though, I have expanded on more. Her parents are blacksmiths and silversmiths, she took up the trade as well. Her little sister I named Silver Blade also took up the trade of smithing career. Her specialty is counterfeit Unicorn Assassin Blades. Which only specialist in the royal guard are allowed to own.

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:iconalexwarlorn:
alexwarlorn Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2013
DT and SS are pretty much FORBIDDEN from growing as characters to keep the narrative functioning properly. If they stop being cardboard cut outs for the CMC to prove their inner strength over, the audience might feel SORRY for them, instead of feeling sorry for the good guys.
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
And nothing of importance is lost! =p
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:iconalexwarlorn:
alexwarlorn Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2013
:-(
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:iconpigpeter:
Pigpeter Featured By Owner May 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Babs Seed had no real right to do that at the ending. It's pretty hypocritical since she just said she wouldn't bully people anymore.
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner May 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah. :( Oh well.
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:iconbrony99:
Brony99 Featured By Owner Apr 8, 2013
and Babs did get a bit of development in Apple Family Reunion. and again, don't blame Babs for the shitty ending.
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Okay, can you stop repeatedly commenting with that now?
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:iconbrony99:
Brony99 Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2013
okay. but again, we get a little more delvelopment from her, she is apperently starting her CMC chapter.
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:iconbrony99:
Brony99 Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2013
I know I'm beating a dead horse but again, wasn't Babs alright in her second apperence? and I was hoping she could have an even better apperence but I stopped watching the show because of the intelligence insulting "Keep Calm and Flutter On".
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Mar 26, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
She wasn't bad in her next appearance but that wasn't enough to undo the ep for me. Hopefully sometime though.

And yeah, KCaFO was pretty awful, though I kept watching. I'm fairly sure FIM'll have more good eps later, it certainly can't get much worse! :p
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:iconbrony99:
Brony99 Featured By Owner Mar 26, 2013
I just don't think a character should be judged by their first apperence. what if they get better but you stubornly keep thinking of them the same way?

and Discord is supposed to be a monster, total and absolute evil.
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Isn't your second paragraph an example of your first paragraph? That you're still judging Discord off first impressions? (I preferred it when he was open to interpretation, but I felt inclined to nitpick. :p)

Anywho, I'm sure Babs'll have chance to redeem herself in my eyes, but I won't get my hopes up until she gets another ep where she's a main part (AFR was more of a cameo for her).
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:iconbrony99:
Brony99 Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2013
well, it may seem like a double standard but a villain should be judged just by first impressions and the heroes can be given a chance afterwards.
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:iconbrony99:
Brony99 Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2013
just checking, did you get that last bit or insight I gave? but again, Babs is a good character over all and the ending is the only real problem with the episode.
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
We already had a short conversation about it the first time you raised that point (end of page 2 of comments), I thought it was an accidental repost or such.
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:iconbrony99:
Brony99 Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2013
I'm sorry. part of my point was that Diamond Tiara probably won't just change and she needs some harsh treatment to give her a taste of her own medicine first.
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:iconharetrinity:
HareTrinity Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh. I'd say the opposite, that she needs to be shown the benefits of friendship with others before she wants it. At the moment she seems fine with just Silver Spoon. Maybe if Silver was away for a while then Diamond would seek out friendship with others.
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:iconbrony99:
Brony99 Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2013
maybe you're right but it isn't gonna be easy. the ending was bad but Babs wasn't acting naturally, she just did what the writers made her do.
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